Mantic Games - Dread Ball

[Mephisto]

yo apostaria que una vez se cumplan los MVP, todo lo demas sera pagando pasta extra aparte de los 150$,
el ejemplo ese equipo de mujeres...

viendo como funcionan los kickst, la gente tiene preparados unos 4 o 5 goals y despues van viendo lo que quiere la gente, el que mejor hizo esto los de zombicide xD

esta claro qe las grandes compañias pueden sacar cosas a menor precio qe las compañias mas noveles, ya tienen la infraestructura, los diseñadores y encima capacidad para hacerlos a gran escala

Yo espero que salgan los dos mvp siguientes. Equipos al precio que te los venderán en tienda (25$ aunque ya veremos si en wayland y maelstrom no te quedan a 21 o asi). Para eso casi prefiero cosas de edicion limitada o sino los starplayers.

[Mephisto]

A ver señores,

enlace en BGG con un resumen de lo que ha salido de reglas hasta ahora y de puntos fuertes del juego:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/851313/ ... production

Odd it is to write a review about a game that, not only has not yet been released, but has yet to begin its full production (though that being said DreadBall has already surpassed its minimum pledge reaquirement by $115k on writing this pre-review). Even so I already feel impressed by what snippets of information have leaked though the cracks by the creators that it has me excited to be a sponsor of this game and to play it with my local game-group (who are all as equally interested in this game - indeed it was them who made me keen to get involved in the first place).

Thus I write this for two reasons - to compile what information there is on this game, and to encourage people who may be sitting on the fence of pledging to this game to go in (plus, as a third reason, if more people pledge there is a higher chance they'll produce the extra MVP models in the Kickstarter release. So yes - I am writing this out of somewhat selfish reasons).

So lets get started. Here are the 20-hot points I think people need to consider when looking at Bloodbowl:

1) This is NOT Blood Bowl
The creator of this really emphasises this in an extended blog on the DreadBall website - stating that they have the utmost respect for the 'Gamesworkshop' game and, in that regard, they do not want to make a clone of the sports-miniture game. And, as you will read, you will quickly discover this is certainly the case - Dreadball is a very different game.

2) Smaller Team Size
Not a big deal, but for me fewer models is better. Specifically in painting (I like to field a fully painted team/ crew/ army - and less models allow me to achieve this quicker). Blood Bowl allows for a team of 16 models; 11 of which can be on the field at a time. Dreadball allows for a team of 11 models; 6 of which can be on the field (although, if you are clever and cunning enough, you can get more models on the field provided the opposing coach doesn't call "foul" on your breach of the rules).

3) Smaller Field
Bloodbowl has a field 24x14 squares (336-squares total). Dreadball is played on a hexagon pitch of 23x11 hexes (223-hexes total) - almost 33% smaller. This certainly compensates for the smaller teams, and also keeps the action fairly involved.

4) Shorter Games
A game of Bloodbowl lasts for 16 rounds (16 for each team for a total of 32-rounds). Dreadball lasts for a total of only 14-rounds (7 round for each team). There is also a rule that should a team score 8-points over their opponent, they win automatically.

5) Multiple Scoring Zones
Bloodbowl has only one scoring zone - the end zone where you must run your ball and, doing so, will gain you 1-point/ touchdown.
Dreadball REALLY changes this with 3-scoring zones on each side of the field - each worth a different number of points (the two scoring zones near the mid-field are worth 1-point each; the one furthest from the midzone is worth 3-points). Furthermore, in Dreadball, you can throw the ball (i.e.: you don't have to carry it). Should you throw it into the scoring hex from the furthest point in the scoring zone, the goal is worth an additional +1 point (thus the goals near the mid zones are potentially worth 2-pts, and the furthest are potentially worth 4-pts). This works in well with the previous point as essentially a team could score 8-points in the first two turns of the game (and, if the opposition hasn't scored once, that will be game-over). It also makes for tactical decisions (risk throwing the ball for an extra +1 point and losing your turn if it scatters, or attempt to run it in for a more assured score).

6) No Resets
In Bloodbowl, when a Touchdown is scored or the game is halfway over (i.e.: after turn , the pitch resets and all teams are placed back on their sides of the field in their offense/ defense positions.
In Dreadball, there is no such luck. There is no halftime (the game continues non-stop from turn 1 to 7) and, when a score is achieved, a new ball immediatly enters the field from the mid-zone REGARDLESS where players are. This adds an additional tactical element - should you run your team into the opposing side of the field to score, your opponent will have an advantage when the ball re-enters play (i.e.: no one defending your side of the field). This adds another tactical element - do you commit more players to offense or defense? Suddenly your ration of only 6-players becomes rather crucial of where they are at all times.

7) Specific Roles
While there is some similarity between the games - both have players who are better at scoring/ trackling/ etc... - Dreadball pushes the 'specific roles' a step further. Players who specialize in tackling opponents (aka Guards) CANNOT pick up the ball. Likewise players who specializing in scoring (Strikers) CANNOT tackle players. There is a third possition, the Jack-of-all-trades (aka Jacks) who can do both - score and tackle - but will always find themselves at a disadvantage when vs'ing a player who specializes in a role. Sure a Jack can tackle a Gaurd, but chances are the Gaurd is going to come out on top.
This makes choosing your team quite important. It's almost always a given you will want some Guards on the field to break the enemy line and protect your own goals, but will you fill up the rest of your field with Jacks (to offer both some tackle support and scoring abilities) or will you go some Strikers to really maximize your points with each score?
Fortunately with a team-max of 11, you can have some flexability given only 6-players will be on the field at a time (thus, when tactics change, you can call players off the field to put new people on the field - need more defense? Call back your Strikers and get more Guards out there!). The benchsitters quickly become tactical options instead of just back-ups for when your main-line up are taken off the field.
This choice also changes depending on your team of choice:

Thematic Teams
Sure Bloodbowl has a LOT of teams (and I mean a LOT) but many are very similar with some minor cosmetic-stat differences. Sure this does create some variety, but it also makes things somewhat more complicated and harder for new-players to grasp. Dreadball currently only has 4-teams/ races, and while it's likely they will develop more groups, these four are each quite unique to each other. Thus if you become familiar with the themes of each race, you will quickly feel comfortable knowing what you are up against without needing to learn every feature of each different miniture:

Tron-Tek (the humans) are (as expected) your all-rounded team. They have players in every position (Guard, Striker, Jack) and focus their play on actual sport methods - passing and striking instead of using brute force.

The Marauders (Orx and Goblins) are the brutes of the game. Both races focus on specific roles - the Orx are the Guards (and the Guard VERY well) while the Goblins take care of the point-scoring. They are not a score-focused team, as they lack any strikers (all their Goblins are Jacks) so their playstyle focuses mainly on taking down the threats on the enemy side (usually the opposing Strikers) so the Goblins can score when they can.

Forgefathers (the Dwarves) are somewhat a mix of Tron-Tek and the Maurauders. They are (currently) the only other team to have players in all roles (Guard, Striker, Jack) and have impressive durability - their Jacks can hit almost as hard as an Orx and their Gaurds almost refuse to be knocked down. They do however suffer from their slow speed (they the slowest team in the game), so their playstyle is somewhat a battle of attrition - focused on moving up the arena and biding their time to let their striker make a high-scoring shot.

The Vermyn (rat-men/ aka space-skaven) are the 'elite' team that requires some finesse to use (making them very appealing to pro-coaches). They are a team of specialists as they are the only team (currently) who do not have any Jacks - thus their players specialize in either Guard duty or Striking to score points. They also have terrible ball skills - having trouble both picking the ball up and scoring with it. Fortunately they are the fastest team in the game, and can move past enemy guards with surprising ease. They can even Sprint from one end of the Arena to the other in a single turn! As such, the Vermyn focus on a rapid-speed game-style - they often overlook the +1 point from scoring at a distance to instead just walk the ball in as many times as possible. Afterall - three strikes in the enemy end zone is still 9 points!

9) Simplicity of Armor/ Races
Another great thing about the races of Dreadball is they are all identical. A Vermyn Guard has the same stats as a Veryn Striker, just as a Forgefather Jack has the same stats as a Forgefather Striker and Guard. This makes referencing VERY easy.
Furthermore, the Amor worn by one player-role is the same for all players of that same role. Striker armor for a Tron Tek player is identical to the armor worn by a Vermyn Strike. Naturally armor does change depending on the role (Strikers have lighter armor to move, making them more vulnerable to injury, while Guards have the most durable armor to maintain their place on the field) but again, if you know the armor of one type of player, you will know the armor for all players of that type. This ease of reference makes games significantly easier for players to learn, and makes game-play remarkably fast once you have the idea of it.

10) Tactical Team-Play
In Bloodbowl you can move each model once (though in many case you will find it better to have some models do nothing so their tackle zones make it difficult for the opponent to also do anything). Dreadball is VERY different in this, which is a major selling point for the game.
In Dreadball, you have 6-players on the field (typically) and 5-orders you can give on each of your turn. Each order allows you to assign one player to take one action. Thus there will always be one player who will do nothing each turn.
However, unlike Bloodbowl, you can assign up to 2-orders to a single player each turn! Thats right - your striker can move twice in a single turn if you choose to devote your attention to them. In this effect you could (for example) have two of your players activate twice, and a third activate once, while your remaining three players maintain their position. In this regard you could essentially have half your team focus on driving an offensive play, while your other half maintains your defense. Or, alternatively, you could move all your players (minus one) one time to make a slow progress on the enemy and keep them guessing as to what you'll do the turn following. This rapidly makes game-play far more interesting, and makes it very possible for almost every-team to be able to score a point every round!
This is a particular joy I have in expectation of this game. In Bloodbowl, should you have scored on turn 7 and/or 15, turns 8 and 16 were delegated to just seeing how much damage you could do to your foes because there was no chance of getting a touchdown (unless you were a super-pro, mutated, skaven gutter-runner). Dreadball allows you to make every turn, even the last turn count which makes for very exciting games. I.e.:
Is it your last turn of the game? Score is 5-2 against you? The only way you can win this is if you run the ball into the enemy end zone and score once. Do you play safe to get 3-points and go into over-time/ sudden death? Or do you take a chance to throw it in for the extra +1 point and score 4-points to take the match! These are the choices you will make in Dreadball!

11) Player Facing
In Bloodbowl, players all have a 360-degree vision. In Dreadball, a player can only see in the 3-hexes in front of them (they are blind to the 3-hexes behind them). Attacking a player in the back has a significant advantage for the attacker (the defender will not be able to tackle back - only attempt to dodge the slam). Also, throwing the ball to a player who is facing the thrower will often result in a successful pass/ catch - opposed to throwing it to a player who has their back to you (and thus cannot see the incomming ball).
This simple addition once again increases the tactical advantages of the game, forcing you to consider how you will face your team-mates for the best result desired.

12) Free Actions
Some players may think 5-actions per team/ turn (or 35-actions per game/ team) to be too little. Dreadball does answer this as well - free-actions! Should you manage to succeed on an action particularly well, you can earn yourself a free action (which is exactly as it reads - an action you take that doesn't count to the 5 your team makes each turn). It is even apparently possible that free-actions, when performed particularly well, can ALSO produce free-actions! Don't think your play is limited to the 5-moves you get at the minimum. There is more to this game than you will see at first!

13) Card-Tricks make unique Teams
In addition to the dice in this game, there are also cards. These are once-per-game effects which often require you to give up a team-action to perform, but allow you to give a player a third action (i.e.: through the use of the cards, you can essentially delegate 3-team actions to a single player!!). As these cards are hidden to your opponent, they won't know what advanced tactics you have avaiable to you.
I like these as they give the sense that the players and the coach have trained special maneuvers and techniques, and gives the team even more uniqueness. These cards really expand the unique playstyle of each individual team - making pairings of the same race (e.g.: Forgefather VS Forgefather) not a battle of the clones, but rather two teams who have undergone separate training.

14) There IS a Referee (and you can curse them!)
The Referee model that comes with the Dreadball game isn't just for show - its the 13th model on the field (added to the 6-models on each opposing team). She can move around the pitch controlled by each player on their turn and, while she won't score or guard for anyone, she does still take up a hex which can block opponents from doing things, and her presence makes it significantly easier to spot "fouls" on the field. This adds a nice touch to the game and furthers the tactical choices each player decides on each turn.
Turns out you can even attempt to distract the "ref" and, if successful, will allow you to perform "Fouls" without getting the red-card for it. The sport-theme quickly grows with her presence in the game.

15) No Special Dice Needed
Bloodbowl uses their own dice. Sure its nice, but I prefer games that utilize the age-old d6. Why? Because if you loose a special dice, they aren't exactly easy to replace (you'll need to reorder one from a game-specialist store). The trusty d6 however is often available from multiple stores - including your standard supermarket in some cases. Dreadball uses the d6, and thats a plus in my book.
And sure there is the argument "you can use a d6 in Bloodbowl - just make each number represent something!!". Yeahhhh... you could... but lets be honest its more likely not going to happen.

16) Exploding 6's.
This may loose some appeal, as Bloodbowl is said to be a tactical game that focuses more on player positioning and less on dice-rolls. Dreadball does seem to be doing the same, though when the dice are rolled there is an advantage on both sides. Whenever a player rolls their dice (typically they will roll 3d6 on any roll), should they ever roll a 6, they roll an additional dice. Its commonly called the exploding 6 (whenever you roll a 6, you re-roll another dice. If it rolls a 6, your roll another dice, etc..)
It should also be noted that the success on a dice is scored to a number. For example, if you are rolling against a 4+, and dice roll that is 4, 5, or 6 will be considered a success. This slim chance does that even players who are highly unlikely to win can still pull through on luck alone. Thus calculating odds and tactics will only get you soo far. As high as tactics are in this game, luck will also play a part so that no matter how bad your situation gets - there is always a chance you might pull through. This certainly will encourage players to maintain their attention to the game and not give up (as there is always a chance they will come back from)

17) Extra Dice
Bloodbowl allows you to re-roll your dice depending on how many Team Re-Rolls you have, which you can sometimes gain more of when you prepare for a kick-off. Dreadball has a similar mechanic in "Coach Dice" which allow you to add an extra dice to any roll you do - increasing your chances of success on any effort. These are also gained at the start of a game, and more can be earned due to appealing to the fans, so the mechanic is again similar in each game which is certainly welcome.

18) Player development
Like Bloodbowl, Dreadball does have player development which makes tournaments quite interesting. While there is still more to be revealed regarding this, it has been said that (like Bloodbowl) players will get experience from Scoring points for their team, as well as taking down enemy players.
One interesting reveal is the Guard upgrade "Keeper" which will allow the player to wear even TOUGHER armor than what Guard models typically wear. There is also word that, should the keeper get hold of the ball, they can 'punt' it down field - allowing them to rapidly turn a defensive play, back into an offensive play (though the act of 'punting' the ball does cause a turn-over. Still - better to get the ball away from your goals!)
There is also a bell-curve on player XP. The higher a player's skill, the harder it will be for them to develop. This will naturally help maintain balance over longer tournaments, while still giving personality to each individual miniature. There are also (in the inital release) only 14 skills. While some players may groan that this isn't enough, I personally feel hopeful of this being a good thing. In Bloodbowl in almost always comes down to a player's first skill being Dodge or Block, with later skills supporting this. Hopefully Dreadball has learned from this and will make sure every skill is a worthwhile choice to make - giving quality over quantity to improve game-play.

19) No Injuries and Player-Death-Compensation
Bloodbowl is a brutal sport with medicine being rather low-tech. Dreadball comes from the high future where injuries do happen but are quickly resolved (nano-bots and stim-cell injections for the win!).
Even death isn't the end. After a game the coach can spend a hefty fee to revive his deceased star players (the benefits of high-technology allow you to keep your valued team-members alive for later games) or - if the player isn't worth it - they can instead MAKE money by selling the deceased player's organs via licences donnor banks (afterall - pro athlete parts sell well!). Thus death isn't as significant a penalty as you might think - but rather a tactical choice. It allows you to keep you pro players alive, while recycling expendable players to buy newbloods.
This mechanic certainly appeals to me as I always hated when luck destroyed my pro-player, frequently ending my run in a tournament against teams who were lucky enough to maintain their experience members.

20) Better Tournament Results
In Bloodbowl, every Touchdown you make is recorded on the league results. As pointed out by the designer, this frequently penalized slower teams (aka the Dwarves) who would still win games by games of attrition (i.e.: score 2-touchdowns VS's the opponent scoring 1/0 touchdowns).
Dreadball does away with HOW many points you scored for "what was your difference?" One game where the results were 5-2 is the same as another game who scored 3-0; both will mark the winners as scoring +3-points to the tournament results. In this effect, no team becomes penalized by their playstyle - allowing slow teams (i.e.: the Forgefathers) to be on more even footing with fast teams (i.e.: the Vermyn).


So thats it - all 20 points I have gathered from reading blogs, posts, developer diaries, and whatever other resources I could collect. Hope its been an enjoyable read and I equally hope this all ends up being accurate and resulting in a fantastic game.

Ya van por 162,000$. A ver si se llega al siguiente pledge.

El equipo de féminas va a 20$.

[VIDEADOR]

A mi este juego me suena a este video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRPqVDbo ... ure=g-vrec

[Willy]

A mi este juego me suena a este video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRPqVDbo ... ure=g-vrec

Si , ese video ya apereció por este foro hace algun tiempo , creo recordar que lo colgó jabogado .
Siempre he pensado que un juego deportivo-futurista deberia poderse disparar y es una pena que este no lo inlcuya .

[VIDEADOR]

A mi este juego me suena a este video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRPqVDbo ... ure=g-vrec

Si , ese video ya apereció por este foro hace algun tiempo , creo recordar que lo colgó jabogado .
Siempre he pensado que un juego deportivo-futurista deberia poderse disparar y es una pena que este no lo inlcuya .

Supongo que aqui sustituiran los trabucos por cañones laser

[tzoscey]

lo que habia dicho , una vez sauqen el enforcer y el orcote se acabaron las cosas gratis para el kickstarter, al menos las fisicas (el libro season 2 en digital a 200k), espero equivocarme al menos añadir dos figuras mas a enanos y ratas...

las camisetas pagando, los dados de los equipos pagando... las camisetas lo entiendo, pero lso dados podria haber sido un buen detalle

van anunciando Season 2, la ampliacion, 4 equipos(tias, zzor?, robots y Judwan?) mas MVPs, entrenadores y animadoras.

la siguiente , Ultimate Dreadball, diferentes campos, biguys (al ser scifi, deben ser dreaghnouts y cosas por el estilo), juegos entre multiples equipos...

y Xtreme Dreadball, aun sin noticias xD solo el nombre

supongo que visto el tiempo con que anuncia las cosas, muchas cosas pueden cambiar antes de ver la luz.

[Mephisto]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/174 ... game/posts

Miraos este update. Parece
q si q seguiran regalando cositas...!

[tzoscey]

yo no entendi eso ... una copia digital de season 2, a los 200k, igual a partir de ahi poco fisico,
hay mas cosas o incluso se podra pillar el season 2 como el kickstarter, asi se podran usar las humanas en su plenitud con reglas ajustadas para ellas

pero comparando con el viejo BB, ese que saco games a ultima hora con el zona mortal incluido...costaba 80 euros y traia 24 figuras (4 modelos por equipo tambien)
este cuesta 170$ ya con el equipo de feminas incluido... y va con unas 64 figuras (12 orcox, 12 humanos, 10 enanos, 10 ratas, 10 humanas, 1 referee, 9 MVP), doy por hecho que los dos MVP que quedan caen fijo, asi que no esta mal de todo

acabo de darme cuenta que pone que hay reglas para 8 MVP... y regalan 9 xD si todo va bien, una errata?

- Rules for 8 MVPs, team advancement and league system

[Mephisto]

Si miras en updates, en los comemtarios del post en cuestiòn, he preguntado al respecto y la respuesta d mantic es q va a haber much :mas. mas minis gratis

[Mephisto]

A ver, ahora que estoy en un cyber puedo contestar bien:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/174 ... sts/304629

Missing_small
Mephisto about 2 hours ago

Quick question: are we going to get more free miniatures after rhe 200,000$ goal or is that the end?
Section 8.small
ray bans about 2 hours ago

Can we get Dreadball Rule Books signed like we did with KoW. perhaps have a choice in the survey at the end if you want to wait for signed copies or not.

I would really like to see signed books as an option.

In australia we can not get to a tournament that is local, and would really like to see signed books.
Mantic-logo.small
Creator Mantic Games about 1 hour ago

@ Mephisto - there are still plenty of free miniatures to come >:D

La verdad es que tras el equipo de chicas, el hecho de que los siguientes stretchs esten muy juntos, ha provocado que mucha gente se haya apuntado al carro. Parece que en unas 24h se superaran los 200,000$, lo que significa:

- Enforcer (jugador estrella/MVP inspirado en IRON MAN)
- Buzzcut (jugador estrella orco)

ambos pueden jugar en todos los equipos.

- reglamento en formato digital de la primera expansion, que es la que contiene las reglas para ligas y desarrollo de jugadores.

Yo cada dia estoy mas contento cuando veo que cantidad de minis voy a recibir

[tzoscey]

en esta conversacion que tenemos tu y yo xD
mira esto han puesto en el blog de mantic

Anything over $400k Mantic will also be able to hugely support organised play, and the Striker! reward level will get over 80 models!

xD eson son unas 20 figuras mas que ahora xD mas o menos, ahora habria uqe ver si no es añadiendo mas pasta

As you would expect from Mantic we will be arranging a hosts of tournaments to get the competitive play up and running, and with the world knowing there are 3 expansions on the way (and backers getting them all – and early) we hope to have a thriving growing community right out of the blocks. We will also have this range available from all good retailers across the world, making the game available to new comers, and with Mantic’s great value for money we will be able to draw in more new players.

If we sail on past those figures (the $1m mark looks nice!), we will have 2 more sets we can launch, one of which is another complete game called DreadBall Xtreme.

curioso que dreadball Extreme vaya a ser un juego independiente, usando lo de los otros 3 juegos

[Mephisto]

a ver, si me dicen que es "for free", pues digo yo que sera sin pagar

lo que creo, y por ahi vas, es que seguiran con la estrategia combinada de te pongo dos minis muy chulas de un equipo, pero si lo quieres completo, compralo. Yo por ahora he pillado el striker + los trofes y me siento delante del ordenador a ver cuantas cositas me regalan por dia.

en cuanto a equipos extra, como el de feminas, supongo que me lo pillare via waylandgames en un futuro...

habra que estar atento a los proximos dias, ya que la barrera de los 200 no tardara en caer.

[txapo]

Ronnie está muy contento con el ritmo que lleva la cosa y ha dicho que si se llega a 400K los que hayan pillado un striker se llevarán unas 80 minis, o sea que pinta bien. La carta de Ronnie no tiene desperdicio si cumple lo que promete, lo que creo que hará.

Me uno a la conversación de dos ahora que se acabó el verano!!

[Kurt]

Buenas,

yo nunca he colaborado con algo de kickstarte y me molaría coger un equipo + reglas digitales (30$). ¿Simplemente hago la donación y espero a diciembre para que me envíen el paquete o hay que hacer algo más?

Salud!

[Mephisto]

Ey kurt. Mirate q paquete te sale mejor. Quizas tengas q añadir gastos d envio 15$. Tu pagas a kiclstsrter y ya te contactaran xa envios y demas